Will NATO Fight?

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If nuclear terror applies to Ukraine, why doesn’t it apply to any NATO country that becomes the target of Russian military aggression? Why would NATO leaders fear Putin’s nukes any less if he takes a bite out of Poland or the Baltic states? The reality is, if it is true that NATO could not risk intervention over Ukraine for fear of Russian nuclear retaliation, it could not risk intervention over, say, Latvia for the same reason.
On top of that, every country in the West has capitulated to a concerted and systematic assault on its history, its virtue and its self-worth. Past glories are denigrated because they are not in line with 21st century wokeism. Governments, including defence and foreign ministries, the very people that must lead any fight against Russian attack, have succumbed to this sickness to the extent that even they abrogate their own past and repudiate their own present.
Meanwhile, in pursuit of a superstate, the European Union and its cheerleaders have been doing their level best to openly undermine and cancel national or patriotic spirit in member countries.
Can we expect Europeans to fight and die for countries whose histories and modern sense of worth have been roundly denounced and condemned by their own leaders?
No such feeling exists for the EU even as it seeks to replace national loyalty. Allegiance to Brussels is transactional and in only one direction. People ask not what they can do for the EU but what the EU can do for them. Of course many of our young people would fight for their country — with as much courage and commitment as their ancestors ever did — and we witness this whenever we send them into battle. But when the time comes to expand our forces, how many more will answer the call after being educated to despise their own country and the very notion of fighting for it?
If somehow the political and popular will to defend NATO member states did materialise, what would European countries fight with? Constantly expanding social welfare programmes have driven the military out of the marketplace across the continent.
Putin’s objective is the neutralisation of NATO. He knows that the alliance’s failure to fight for its own under his provocation would spell its final humiliation and signal the end of the US-led world order. For the liberty, prosperity and security of future generations, this cannot be allowed to happen. It will not be easy or quick to undo generations of self-obsessed complacency, deep-rooted pacifism, deliberate subverting of patriotic spirit and refusal to make hard sacrifices in the national interest. Above all it will take strong leadership of the kind that is hard to discern in any NATO country today. Whether or not this is mission impossible depends on Putin’s timetable and exactly how fast European countries can re-forge their national steel.
This is not a rehearsal; it is a foretaste of the far greater threat that will be coming from President Xi Jinping’s Chinese Communist Party.

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Yes, the even greater threat is the CCP, and our own President is their stooge!
And now Biden has proposed measures that would put the U.S., along with every other country, under the control of the UN via the WHO, which is also controlled by the CCP.

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An appalling article, written by a madman.
“War is a game Kings would not oft play, if their subjects were more wise”
He extolls the patriotic virtues of our ancestors, perhaps he should remind himself of the popular song sung by Tommy Atkins in WW1:
*We’re here, because we’re here, because we’re here, because we’re here
we’re here, because we’re here, because we’re here, because we’re here" etc.
What is very clear, even in this quite incredible media storm of lies, is that every effort is being made, in a concerted manner, across the West, to demonise Russia, and Putin personally, and promote war.
There is no effort to promote peace from any western leader, no effort to defuse the situation. Instead every effort has been made to stoke the fire of war, particularly by pouring in weapons and training to Ukraine. And not just recently either, this situation has been in preparation for many years, while Russia has been patiently negotiating, in good faith, to set up a europe wide security situation that would have guaranteed Ukranian sovereignty, including over Donbas and Luhansk, but not Crimea, (which actually was split from Ukraine while both were in the USSR).
It seems that the only effort to promote a negotiated solution is coming from China.
I may write more later, but now I have to get to work.
Peace, to all of you. :slightly_smiling_face:
*

This is Tulsi Gabbard’s take on what is happening: I believe she is right.

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The Russian state cannot be “destroyed”. Only the regime can change or be changed.

Why does the Biden administration want to change it? If it fears Russian aggression, why is it hellbent on weakening the US military to the point of destruction?

Colonel Richard Kemp is one of the great men of our time, in which great men are very thin on the ground. He knows what he’s talking about. Please, comrades in theoretical arms, listen to him (the Gatestone article I have linked to), not to Tulsi Gabbard. She is beautiful, she is eloquent, she is a warrior, but she is not a geopolitical strategist. And neither is Tucker Carlson, though he is brilliant on most domestic political issues.

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The General asks, “Why have we utterly rejected the prospect of spilling NATO blood?”
Because it would start a nuclear World War 3!
Thats why it was so important to negotiate a treaty months ago. But it doesn’t appear that’s going to happen. Which is why I’m convinced that that’s the outcome global dictators intended.

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To the contrary; the Russian state can be destroyed, just as effectively as the USSR, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia were destroyed. Russia is a huge country that contains many ethnicities, some of whom have been at war with each other in the past. In the eyes of foggy bottom Russia is ripe for destruction. That destruction to be followed by ruthless exploitation.
The US plan is quite plain for anyone to see: Encourage ethnic antagonisms, pay for insurgent groups and arm them, promote civil unrest, recruit assassins to murder police officers thereby ensuring an escalation of violence, finally ending in the installation of a puppet regime. Mission accomplished, move on to the next target.
No threat to American hegemony will be tolerated; the US foreign policy establishment is like the Borg from Star Trek; “resistance is futile”, our way or death.
As for Colonel Richard Kemp; yes, a very frustrated Englishman, with plenty to be frustrated about. But his arguments for NATO military intervention are the rantings of a madman. Russia has not threatened the Baltic states. They have warned Poland about belligerent activity. The US should itself be very concerned about the Poles, they have a history of Russophobia that could easily lead them to take irrational decisions that could land us all in trouble.
Remember Zbigniew Brzezinski? He was the Polish catholic Russophobe bigot that led Carter by the nose in destroying Afghanistan.
As for Tulsi Gabbard: She doesn’t want nuclear war, in my book that makes her a great geopolitical strategist.

Liz; no Western Leader is interested in negotiations of any type. It is quite clear that they have received their orders from Washington, to carry out the plan foggy bottom has devised. Do you think the Germans would so blasé’ about losing Russian energy supplies if they didn’t think they would get them back, and more, when Russia is subjugated? That is what they have been promised.
The cynicism and downright evil that is US foreign policy has to stopped.
Tulsi may be the one to do that, although how she could is a puzzle right now.
Strange things are happening: What, exactly, are Elon Musk’s ambitions? Is he planning a move into the political arena?

Yazmin, Father_Lode, Anyone who agrees with them that the present US government and/or NATO wants to destroy Russia, and that therefore Russia was not wrong to invade Ukraine -

1.Please explain how by invading Ukraine Putin saves Russia from destruction by the US.

2.How would the US with its sadly weakened military, and/or NATO which is showing no obvious signs of pining to go to war, destroy Russia?

3.What would change for the US and/or the member countries of NATO if Russia were to be destroyed?

4.Do you seriously believe that Putin wants to start a nuclear war with the West?

Take your time, but please present a well-reasoned case. Thank you.

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I have heard people defend Russia by saying they do not want to start World War III. Frankly I think World War III is well on its way. The longer enemies are permitted to encroach on allies the worst it will be.

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Which allies are being encroached on?
Who are the enemies doing the encroaching?

Ell, you missed the Ukraine isn’t an ally and not a part of NATO, plus Ukraine is on no. 4 on corrupt countries in the world, plus there’s theses:
https://www.infowars.com/posts/ukraine-biolab-update-russia-implicates-pfizer-moderna-merck-obama-soros-clintons-bidens-rockefellers-others/

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A country not being a member of NATO should not give permission for invasion and mass killing of its people. Putin’s actions are unforgivable, causing a mass upheaval of not only Ukrainians but also Russians. This comes right after Europe was hit with mass migration from the Middle East. Whatever is going on in the back offices of Ukraine does not justify Putin’s actions. Not to mention he is only encroaching closer to central Europe and threatening countries like Sweden and Finland if they do join NATO. He should have been attacked by NATO long ago.

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“He should have been attacked by NATO long ago”.
Thank you . Now we all understand what you are.

The other thing that ticks me off about NATO is the profiteering off of the war. In Sweden I recently made a purchase at a pharmacy and was subtly asked by the cashier if I want to make a financial contribution to help people in Ukraine. I said no, I know nothing about whoever is behind that campaign. But I thought about all the money pouring in from people who do contribute.

The children at the nearby school in Sweden raised funds that went directly to UNICEF to help people in Ukraine, which I also question any UN entity. So it is unethical on both sides, the longer this nonsense drags on. But Russia has overstepped for sure.

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You are arguing ad hominem again, Father_Lode. Please don’t do it. Don’t make personal remarks! You force me to point out your personal failings as an interlocutor when I don’t want to have to do it. Again you are displaying arrogance, implying that you alone “understand” what’s happening, that you are right beyond doubt. You make up your own facts. You express your own judgments emotionally, not reasonably. You make outrageous statements, thanking “God” (though I’ll take that as a mere figure of speech) for “Russian restraint”! You are carelessly inconsistent: Russian WEALTH will be scrambled for? You must mean the wealth of the oligarchs, because the Russian people have “tiny wealth”? Or had “tiny wealth”. Have the Russian people acquired much more wealth since the Wehrmacht retreated?

No, I don’t understand what’s happening. And neither does anybody whom I ask for enlightenment. You clarify nothing, only enjoy tetchily flinging down your own prejudices. If all Putin wanted was to protect Russians in south-eastern Ukraine, why his plan and failed attempt to seize Kiev?
As Ell says: “Putin’s actions are unforgivable, causing a mass upheaval of not only Ukrainians but also Russians.”

I don’t want to be given a link to yet another pundit. I want your own reasonable explanations for your pro-Russian stance. Or I must conclude that you have no reasons.

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Ell, what you say is informative and makes good sense. I agree with your judgments. Thank you.

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Yazmin, not another link, please. Your own thoughts, your own argument is what is wanted.

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Considering what we know about the terrible lack of safety and efficacy in the vaccines they produced, its very believable that the Pharma companies are using these labs in Ukraine to produce their products without having to meet safety standards.

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I’m still not sure whats going on with it.
I just can’t get on board with corrupt liars like Biden, Pelosi, and Soros who are promoting it.
They say its “for Democracy!” Pelosi even piously quotes the Bible (spare me!) I guarantee you they have ulterior motives.

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