We’re going to see this phrase a LOT more in the next couple of years.
Some of our Christian friends are beginning to use this label publically to describe themselves. Some of them mean by it no more than that their religious morals are the basis of their political beliefs. Others mean it in a much more problematic way: that the society they want to see/return to will insofar as possible, officially endorse Christianity.
Of course, the Left is delighted by this, for obvious reasons.
For us – all conservatives and patriots – it’s a problem, and for us atheists it’s a special problem.
I’ve got a post which goes into a bit more detail about it on another forum, with responses by some Christian conservatives.
You might want to have a look, and even take part in the debate. (And invite the atheists there to register here.)
My take-away line for all patriots/conservatives, but especially non-Christian ones: we’ve got to convince our ‘Christian Nationalist’ friends to keep it among themselves. We probably lost the governorship of Pennsylvania because an otherwise-excellent candidate branded himself a ‘Christian Nationalist’, which of course the Left took immediate advantage of to paint him as practically urging the burning of crosses.
The root problem is that many good patriots/conservatives don’t see that we’re in a political war, which at the moment we have to fight by pulling people away from the Left. This means that when you express yourself, in any mode which can be seen and publicized by our enemies, you have got to watch what you say, and always think, “How will this look when it’s repeated by unscrupulous demagogues?”
‘Christian’/Jewish/Muslim/Atheist/Buddhist/Hindu values are – when I use the term – the average of values held by contemporary Christians/Jews/Muslims/Atheists/Buddhists/Hindus. That is, how they actually behave, not what’s written on some piece of paper somewhere, or even preached by imams or priests or intellecuals.
I’m perfectly happy with the values held by contemporary Chrstians and Jews, and by the few Muslims I know well, and by the atheists. They’re all the same: live and let live, a general benevolence towards humanity, a belief in science.
You can find exceptions to these, of course. But in modern, civilized society, we’re all pretty much alike in terms of our values. They arise naturally from our own self-interest, when society is working, the division of labor and the market are giving us what we want. I’m nice to my neighbors because if I’m not they won’t be nice to me.
When it stops working – when we suffer a devastating war, or a big depression, or when the question of who shall rule among two (or more) groups with different tribal identies arises … then the ‘nice’ values go out the window and the inner naked ape emerges, red in tooth and claw.
And that ape is not Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Buddhist … he’s just the sum of grim natural selection, “me and mine first”.
Actually, if you take all the atheists in America and gave them their own state to control, you’d have something like a hyper-California.
Do the same with all the church-going Christians, and you’d have something like Alabama.
“‘Christian’/Jewish/Muslim/Atheist/Buddhist/Hindu values are – when I use the term – the average of values held by contemporary Christians/Jews/Muslims/Atheists/Buddhists/Hindus. That is, how they actually behave, not what’s written on some piece of paper somewhere, or even preached by imams or priests or intellecuals.”
Isn’t this an understanding of “norms”, rather than “values”? The “norm” is the convergence of moral, legal, religious standards and conventions to which we conform our conduct.
Post-Enlightenment politics is about norms, not religious “values” - however attributed to whichever authority. Who has the authority to make and mandate changes or enforce existing norms, and upon what legitimate basis that authority acts are the big political questions - answered in different societies in different ways. Currently, in America and the West, we are suffering a challenge to societal norms by social-revolutionary fundamentalists, who believe that they have legitimate moral authority to “de-norm” society. Legal, moral, religious codes of conduct are to be emptied of meaning, parodied and trashed. The woke “de-norming” mission over-rides any oath of office, any organizational constraint, any natural law.
“Christian Nationalism” has no legs to run on. The woke have already co-opted the religious values of Christianity (hypocrisy being the cardinal virtue common to all denominations), and its supersessionary m.o. and antinomian marketing strategy to recreate the new universal religion. And as for the “Nationalism” part of the plank: why should universal governmental love be confined to the fifty states of America, and how could it be anyway, what with California and New York still in the Union and being leaders in gov-love exports?
As to Muslim values - not, admittedly, the same as Muslim norms in America - a daily read of the ironically named “Religion of Peace” will correct any misapprehension a reader might have that Islam is a moral religion:
It turns out that Doug Mastriano as a candidate for PA’s governor was a very bad choice to represent MAGA. He really is something of a theocrat. He wanted to make abortion (having or performing one) a capital offense, and claimed that Jesus Christ would intervene in the election to make him governor for that purpose. Ironically, he was raised unchurched, without a religious background. Which only goes to show that parents raising secular children ought not “leave it up to them to make up their own minds”, but instead ought to explain and inculcate why remaining secular and unchurched is the best idea, and why all faiths fail (the outsider test for faith). It should also remind us that just because a candidate has been a ranking officer in the armed services doesn’t indicate any impressive level of intelligence. There was another such idiot running unsuccessfully for a New Hampshire senate seat – Don Bolduc, another theocratic Christian. “Mastriano himself has said that he did not grow up in a “strong Christian family”, but was led to embrace religion as a teenager by an “on-fire youth pastor” after being invited to a youth group called The Way.”
I get so tired of hearing modern free-world society (especially America) is founded on “Judeo-Christian values”. It is not. The culture of the west and free world is a product of social evolution over many centuries of inputs from classical Greece and Rome through the European middle ages and then, most decisively, in the various revolutions that Europe went through coming out of the middle ages and producing a middle-class society – the commercial revolution, the Renaissance, scientific revolution, the Enlightenment, the industrial revolution, etc. After all of that, what remained of essential Christianity is a far cry from that faith as originally conceived and practiced. As much or more remains of pre-Christian European paganism, both from the classical Mediterranean world (which early Christianity did it’s best to destroy) as well as Northern Europe. Merry Yuletide!
My favorite Christian values are, in no particular order,
Render to Caesar (your real property and cash, not the imaginary stuff you render to God),
Judge not (lest ye be judged),
Love your enemies,
Turn the other cheek…
What other masochistic, self-destructive platitudes can we find in Christian wisdom?
We are the filth of the world, the scum, the muck that is scoured from things. [6] The lowest of the low. [7] Let us abase ourselves; be fools; [8] be humble, and associate with the lowly. [9] Do only the most menial work for a living. [10] Bear affliction with patience,[11] even with joy. [12] You must consider all others to be greater than yourselves. [13] Love one another, love all. [14] Then you will be harmless and blameless. [15] That is what I ask you to do to make me proud of you. [16] Present your bodies as a living sacrifice. [17] Bless those who persecute you. [18] Let them do the most evil things to you, and return only good to them. [19] We glory in our suffering. [20] However hard your life is, rejoice and give thanks. [21] Never seek revenge. [22] Obey the government. [23] Pay your taxes. [24] Women, be silent in church. [25] Marry if you must, but I would rather you remained unmarried and chaste as I am. [26] All of you should imitate me, as I imitate Christ. [27] No matter how poor you are, no matter how hard you must toil, give all you can to me to take to the saints in Jerusalem. [28] Remember that when I was with you I worked night and day so as not to be a burden to any of you. [29] Pray constantly. [30] Never feast or carouse, and stay sober. [31] Do not commit sexual immorality. [32] Attend quietly to what you must do, and mind your own business. [33] Be patient always, even when you need to admonish those among you who do not work hard enough. [34] Share all you have so that you’ll all be equal in worldly possessions. [35] Do all this for the sake of Christ. Because he died for you, because he suffered on the cross for you, you must bear all things for his sake. You belong to him because he bought you for a price. [36]
It is a morality that demands and glorifies self-abasement and self-abnegation, as a perpetual repayment of a debt imposed on all humanity by Jesus’s “self-sacrifice”.
The numbers are for the notes that give the precise source. To find them go here and scroll down to Tread On Me: the Making of Christian Morality:
“Resist not evil” is probably the worst of all. (Matthew 5:39 - Jesus in the “Sermon on the Mount”.) That, and the endless forgiving, were revolutionary against Judaism, whose essence was justice (however much we might disagree with what those ancients thought was just). That is why to speak of “Judeo-Christian values” is meaningless.
Now about that rendering unto Caesar:
It was said constantly whenever a newcomer to the Temple enquired why only certain coins could be used ritually. To get those coins, the Roman coins with the head of the Caesar on them had to be exchanged for others on which he did not feature. But why, the newcomer might ask. And the answer was (a common saying): “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s, and unto God what is God’s.”
The money-changers (not “money-lenders”) were thus essential members of the Temple staff.
“Jesus” would not have driven them out. The story is one of the many that prove the gospels were not written by persons familiar with the Jewish religion. Even if some of them were Jews (as at least one author of Matthew probably was, and the author of John claimed to be), they lived in the dispersion and plainly knew nothing of the ritual laws of Temple worship.
And by the time they wrote, the Temple was destroyed.
As the Naked Ape makes his way up from the pure animal state, his increasing cognitive powers present him with things that are mysteries – which his ape ancestors just accepted.
Religion and magic are attempts to make sense of those mysteries, and, sometimes, to provide a basis for moral behavior.
I personally do not believe pure materialism has cracked the mystery of existence. In particular, it cannot explain consciousness. The universe is more than just interacting partciles. We need to be humble as we continue our intellectual journey.
AND at this point in history conservative atheists need to be diplomatic. Believers who, for whatever reseason are resisting the Left’s dissolution of all authoritiy, all moral order, of our history – these are are allies.
We need to convince them that the phrase ‘Christian nationalism’ does not aid our mutual cause. It could have been invented by and popularized by the Left. It’s bait, with a sharp hook inside.
We’re in a war, and we may need to wear camouflage. Assuming we want to win.
The only question is: what is true?
It may be ‘humbler’ (and this assumes humility is always a good thing, which is doubtful) to think of yourself as just a collection of molecules. My own view is that this outlook is a symptom of mental illness.
