Christian Nationalism

Let us…and all Christians with whom we stand…think of ourselves as patriots. There is the one “standard to which we can repair”…each and everyone of us, who wants America to remain a Representative Republic under a single rule of law. You know, it’s the Constitution.

Why complicate the issue by reacting to or choosing to allow the Left to name either our goal or our community?

Claire, I think that interacting particles, such as we humans, is quite an accomplishment of which the Universe should be proud. Still humility in the face of such power as that is a good attribute of each collection…unit…particuloid?

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Ugh, Paul…what a piece of rotten humanity.

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You are right, Damon, you are absolutely right. I and others use that term…J-C values…because the earliest New World arrivals, who actually settled and claimed the land, were mostly Christians or reared in that state which found its roots in the Bible or the worship inspired by Christian leaders, who interpreted the Bible. But, we may as well go back farther into time and religious history and political history to find similar values among similar roots.

I guess it is expediency that lends itself to the most familiar and recent religious history.

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And the United States was not formed by the Christian puritan Pilgrim Fathers.

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The house is on fire. Some people are throwing gasoline on it. Others are trying to put it out.

No matter what some people in each group – the arsonists and the anti-arsonists – think about anything else, our job is to hinder the arsonists and help the anti-arsonists.

When we’ve got the fire out … or are living in a safe house … we can argue about Free Will or whatever. Right now, people in the anti-arson team who are doing things to make the team smaller, need to be convinced to stop doing it.

Identifying patriotism and pro-Americanism with ‘Christian nationalism’ is a gift to the Left. At this point, with the smoke rising, that’s the ONLY interesting thing about it.

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What good will theocrats do for us, Doug?

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Let me respond to your question with another question: would you ever vote for a politician who said, with apparent sincerity, that he or she believed in God, and that a belief in God was very important? And suppose that God-fearing person was opposed by another politician who was an open, avowed atheist? Can you conceive of a situation in which you would vote for the religious person, and against the non-religious one?

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Doug. We atheists have to accept that almost all American politicians are or claim to be religious. We simply overlook their religiousness. Always. We support or oppose them on political grounds.(Even Trump the Colossus burbles now and then about “God”.)

The exception is - has to be - those who make religion their main thing. Theocrats. Those who call themselves Christian Nationalists do that. They want America to have a state religion. (Yes they do. I’ve taken time and trouble to find out.) They are bigoted. Nothing you say, no statement or carefully set out argument is going to suddenly, magically, make them see things differently. What they believe plays a big part in their lives. Fortunately, as a self-identified group they are a small minority. (No one knows how many who do not join them sympathize with them.) They are more likely to vote Right than Left. But if much is made of their votes being needed, Blacks, Jews, Secularists could have reason to fear that the Republican Party (pretty useless as it is!) was now becoming characterized by a partiality to Christian Nationalism, and withdraw their far more numerous votes. The only gainer would be the (much worse) woke, socialist, racist, prurient, authoritarian Democrat Party.

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Doug, I would vote for the person, who most is like me and my thoughts about the nation, family, economics, taxes, the Constitution, foreign affairs, etc., whether or not he or she were a believer or non-believer.

And, I repeat, if there are Christian Nationalists in my locale, I am unaware of it. Nearly all the political Christians that I know or hear about are Constitutionalists, who believe that God is their first loyalty, County and Family a close second…but never have intimated that they seek a Theocracy.

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Yes, the vast majority of voting Christians are Constitutionalists, not theocrats.

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Okay, I agree with you. Someone who says his/her goal is to make America a theocracy, with a real state religion, and penalties for those who oppose it – we have to fight such people tooth and nail. And we might even have to ally with people on the Left in such a fight.

But, as you say, such people are a small minority. I haven’t done any research on just how small … that needs doing. But I would guess that in number they’re probably like another nasty bunch, the outright neo-Nazis and such. They’re there, but not in large numbers.

And here’s the problem: just as the Left does its best to conflate actual racist white supremacist anti-Semite neo-Nazis and allied groups with conservatives … so also do they do their best to conflate genuine theocrats with naive Christians who use the term ‘Christian nationalist’ to describe themselves, but who are not theocrats.

And, of course, there are some overlaps in both cases … part of our political struggle is to win naive conservative leaning people away from the neo-Nazis and theocrats. (Yes, people with decent conservative instincts can be influenced by indecent people, if the latter are organized and active and seem to present a coherent worldview. I’ve seen this among young workingclass ‘red-pllled’ males. The genuine conservative movement is hopeless at organizing, unfortunately. Most conservatives just sit back and watch their country being destroyed from within … at most the vote Republican or post the occasional anti-socialist ‘witness’ on line. Too bad.

Why do I think that there are a lot of people who call themselves ‘Christian Nationalists’, but who are in fact just naive conservatives, and therefore people we can have some influence among, convincing them that this is a bad phrase to use in describing themselves?

Because I’ve been in touch with one. We were both members of a now-defunct organization called the ‘Civilian Defense Force’. I believe she is typical of many rank-and-file conservatives … not politically sophisticated, but good instincts and a good patriot.

She lives in Pennsylvania and when Doug Mastriano decided to run for governor, and called himself a “Christian nationalist”, she decided to as well. I have argued with her about why it’s such a bad idea. My last exchange with her was before the election, when the Republican Christian Nationalist was creamed by the secular liberal, just as I predicted he would be. I’m going to take up the argument again soon.

But here’s the point: she is not a theocrat. She doesn’t even attend church. She knows I’m an atheist and that doesn’t matter a bit to her.

Yes, 1 is not a valid sample size, and the sample may be biased. But I believe that she in fact represents a significant number of rank and file conservatives. They are for ‘American first’, love their nation, so don’t see anything wrong with calling themselves ‘nationalists’.

They are Christians, resent the sneering attitude of superiority that many non-religious Lefties take towards them (‘deplorables’),
know that their Christianity is benign … and so describe themselves as ‘Christians’. ‘Christian Nationalist’ is just the association of those two terms, each harmless in itself.

Of is it? It certainly gives the genuine theocrats an opening, to fill that term with their own content.

What we need to do is to patiently explain to people who might call themselves ‘Christian Nationalists’ why the use of this term is a gift to the Left. What matters is not what they think it means, or even what it might ‘objectively’ mean, but what it will be taken by most Americans to mean.

Calling yourself a ‘Christian Nationalist’ helps the Left to destroy America. That’s the only thing that matters.

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All true, but literally anything we on the right say is taken and used by the left to destroy us.
Being patriotic, period, is portrayed as bigoted.
Being in favor of voter ID is racist! Being “America First” is “code” for white supremacy! And on and on.
We’d have to stop calling ourselves anything at all, and stop saying anything at all, to satisfy them, and that still wouldn’t stop the lies.

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I don’t hear any of talk radio calling themselves or their listeners “Christian Nationalists” and I don’t think there are any positive vibes about them from these conservative leaders or their guests on talk radio. They see them as fringe and not representative at all of either Christians or conservatives.

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I hope very much this is true. Perhaps my friend is an exception.

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Here’s the sort of thing I’m concerned about. So easy for a good conservative who is also a Christian to re-post this without thinking deeply about what it means.

Of course, the Left will exaggerate this … because the more the term ‘Christian nationalism’ is used in association with patriotism, the better it is for the Left.

However, we’re not helpless, passive consumers. We can get involved, mainly via the internet, with other patriots, and try to persuade them that this is the work of the enemy.

Here’s an argument I would suggest we use: “THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED BY WHITE MEN!” … Okay, it’s literally true, or 99% true. But so what? What would spreading this, as a conservative, not a Leftist, slogan, do, in practical terms?

No matter how true it was then, the fact is NOW that if we don’t involve as many people as possible – of all sexes, sexual orientations, colors, creeds … in saving the Republic these men founded … then we’re headed for a future which, while unpredictable in detail, will not be a pleasant one.

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