To All Members of This Forum

Our former contributor Wagner posted come messages which incited violence and even killing. Of course I had to ask him to delete them. He offered to leave the Forum and I politely told him that I must accept his offer, that it was the proper thing for me to do. Now he is sending emails to members of the Forum complaining that he has been “expelled”. I have no idea how he has obtained the email addresses. We do not supply them, we don’t even know them. Unless a member emails me at my Atheist Conservative address (which us under “About Us” on the Pages of the website), I have no way of knowing anyone’s email address.

Fortunately Yazmin informed me that she received a complaining email from Wagner in the Lounge section of this Forum. I have replied to her there explaining the position. I have been told by one other member that he too received such a letter. Maybe more members will receive them.

I am posting this so everyone will know what happened. This site invites free expression, but it obviously cannot allow criminal incitement to violence and murder.

Correction: The unnamed member who received a letter from Wagner did not receive it by email, but through this forum. The other member has just explained that to me. (I have yet to learn much about how this forum system works.)

My message here otherwise stands.

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I’m sad to see it, but I can see that it was necessary.

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Some hours ago he sent me the same letter. But I tried to explain him that we are here for learning something about our world. Social networks in every type are not the place of propaganda or other kind of actions.

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Right now he/she sent me another reply and refused my opinion and wrote:
(I wrote him: The “New Dark Age” has begun about 100 years ago and as history tells us that no scientists nor philosophers could change the first dark age. Only when the Feudalism transformed to Capitalism from the TOP of the society not below.)

He replied:
"I believe in the power of ideas and the great power of individual thinkers. All the great philosophers you quote, and many more, have changed the world! Just by using the power of their critical, analytical thinking, creativity, paper and ink!

Marx and Engels produced the ideological foundations of Communism/Socialism that transformed the world in the following decades. There are so many examples of this kind of action in history, which I know you can recognize, that I won’t even dwell on providing more examples."

I am shocked by his reasoning!!!
Then I replied him: “If you believe in some monsters like Marx and you think that they were thinker, it is better for you to leave this forum and you have come to the wrong place”.

He can not recognize the left from right!!!

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I apologize for posting in your community again, but I feel compelled to clarify my position and my honor!
In the process I apologize, but I will post publicly all messages exchanged.

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We will be glad.

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I post this message, day 23, for Pezhman, Liz, Yazmin, for Chauncey Tinker my message was the same but with little differences.

Dear Pezhman,

I write privately to you to comments my thoughts about the last events that happens to me in the community.

Thursday, 21 October, after I express my personal opinion that we, the conservatives, are the modern equivalent to the WW2 Jews in the Nazi Germany, in course to be eliminated, and that we need to defend ourselves by all means possible, including eliminating our executioners, the Ms. Jillian Becker publicly reprimanded me and summarily expelled me from our community!

I was shocked, very sad, and very disappointed…

Many reasons for all these feelings…

First, because I had a great feeling of loneliness for not be able of relating to people with a worldview like ours (simultaneously skeptical and conservative), which is the minority of minorities (this one really legitimate!).

So, you can’t imagine my joy to be among you and to be able to openly express my opinions about everything! I really wanted more than just to participate in a community of like-minded people, I wanted to build genuine friendships!

But what I found was a relatively cold community, uninterested in building personal bonds, with little engagement (only 5 or 6 people, out of only 30, read, post, comment and give likes).

And, worse, I get kicked out of the group just two weeks after joining and being an active member!

Second, I was judged summarily and publicly, with no right of defense by the owner of the group, which does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the other members, which weakens the individual value that each member aggregates for the community.

I think that would have been more appropriate that Ms. Becker could have approached me privately, and discussed our difference of opinion, and given me a chance to eventually correct my posts and clarify my opinion.

Make this publicly and without discussion signaling to the community that this space is not really open to debate extreme topics, the very important ones, that need to be spoken frankly. This show that she wants this Forum as a space of friendly agreement. No divergence of what she thinks is right is admitted.

I may argue that the utility of this Forum is little effective in minimizing the grave world’s problems, since it is limited only to sharing our discomfort with the present world’s facts and route, but without any capacity to propose and really act to transform this world into something better.

While our enemies act to implement the world they want, we positioned ourselves as mere spectators, limiting ourselves to commenting on the bad things they do, but doing nothing to change it, other than writing criticism.

My goal in this community was exactly about this, to draw attention to this very limited approach and to call on everyone to start acting more effectively!

We are the passengers of a Titanic, our ship is sinking and we are debating infinitely about how bad this is, that the Iceberg is bad, instead of running to close the hole, remove the excess of water, get the life jackets, prepare the lifeboats!

What surprised me most is that we, the atheist-conservatives, can agree 99% on everything, but if we disagree just 1%, we are judged, silenced and summarily repelled!

Just us who fight for freedom of speech! For independence of opinion, of thinking! I thought that was very hypocritical…

Also (and sad), what is the future of a so small group that cannot keep itself united after encountering the slightest disagreement?

I think that especially we, the atheist-conservatives, should be much more resilient to the eventual disagreements that separate us, than the many affinities that unite us!

We are rejected by the entire Left, by the Conservatives and even by the Atheists, that is, we are like the outcasts of all human societies, just because we are more lucid and coherent than they!

And even among ourselves, we are unable to reconcile our differences! This exposes that we have a dark future ahead of us…

Third, Ms. Becker said publicly that I committed a crime, that I am an immoral person, with a heart full of grief and that I put the whole community at risk.

But the curious is that the first thing I did as soon I joined the community was to alert about the probable situation that all intelligence agencies may be monitoring our community and the risks of speaking publicly about our opinions, which are becoming more and more criminalized!

I suggested creating a second community, similar to the public one, but totally private, only to invited people, so that we could talk more safely about all the risks and what we can do to defend ourselves.

But Ms. Becker vehemently refused it! And she said that she wants that all these agencies clearly knew what we thought and talk!

Some time later (about 10 days) she signaled me to create this private community and promote it here (I think after Chauncey Tinker manifest some kind of support to this proposition, but apparently, he deletes this post before I can read, I could only deduce from her answer).

The very reason why I had created the posts about Digital “Resistance Tools” and “Planned Global Crisis?”.

But, unfortunately, for me there was not enough time, being expelled a few hours later for the exact reason that I wanted to prevent it! Except being self-censored by the moderator herself! She shows that fear the open exposition of polemic opinions and confirmed the importance of we have a private and safer space to debate! Very contradictory…

Fourth, which also saddened me a lot, no one in the community has come to me, publicly or privately to talk to me, to offer some kind of conciliation, either to suggest some sort of solution, or even solidarity, or the desire to continue the friendship, regardless of here. Everyone silenced in concordance…

This showed a (possible) behavior of collective obedience, submission to authority, something surprising and unexpected from people with our political and scientific positioning, from people who (supposedly) think independently and who question central authority!

Or pure disinterest in the other members… Are we so individualistic that the misfortunes of our fellow members do not deserve our involvement?

This silent and indifferent behavior made me think that in the event of the world’s political situation getting worse, that people here would have no problem turning each other to help authorities to hunt us.

Which also led me to the sad conclusion that our segment, of atheists-conservatives is not minimally united, is unable of organize, and we are doomed to disappear…

I can’t tell if this is a reflection of just this community, precisely because of the centralized and controlling behavior of Ms. Becker or if from everyone like us everywhere.

Maybe this explains why we are so few and so unengaged here.

Perhaps many are disenchanted and have distanced themselves.

Maybe I was not the first case of this kind of censorship, and many have lost interest in participating.

As a consequence of all these problems, I am stepping away from this community, and deleting all my posts, something requested by Ms. Becker.

I started to do this just some hours after this sad episode (from the beginning to the present), but the system blocked me for 24 hours after a certain number of edits to my posts.

I also don’t know what your position will be after knowing all these facts, but I would like to keep in touch with you outside this forum, of course, if you are also interested. If not, I will understand.

Thanks for the great comments, sorry for the long ramble, and good luck in life, it looks like we’re going to need a lot of it for what’s to come!

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Fiangol reply, some hours after, this message to me:

Dear Wagner. You shouldn’t be disappointed by a small action.
At first, Jillian Becker is a great human being who have been fought against Globalism and terrorism when we couldn’t distinguish our right hand from our left hand. Now she maybe tired of these party playing or band or group forming. So am I.
The world order and world problems are not solved not by our group nor by other parties or even armies.
The trend of human history is so complex and too expanded to change by us or the others.
The illusion of changing the world just by participating in some social networks which are performed by globalists themselves, is wrong. We can’t change the world by enlightenment the idiot mobs via social networks. 300 years philosophical enlightenment by great philosophers like Kant, Heggel, Feurbach and tens of other german thinkers were not useful and finally Germans voted HITLER !!!
History of the human being had some opposite phases, sometime upward and sometime downward. The “New Dark Age” has begun about 100 years ago and as history tells us that no scientists nor philosophers could change the first dark age. Only when the Feudalism transformed to Capitalism from the TOP of the society not below.
According to the science of “System Theory”, every system can be changed just from the TOP ! not from the base of the system! People can not accompany with someone like me or you or Becker to change the world. You can see my reason here: 300,000,000 American people but just 30 persons participate this forum.
Unless some great persons like President Lincoln or President Trump come and lead the idiot people to change the history. Without these persons, people never move even 1 centimeter.
The most important advice that I give to you:
We are here, in this forum, not for people enlightenment but for sharing our data to aware ourselves, to know the world, to recognize the “Matrix” which has besieged us. To learn how to move through this storm.
Stay with us and return to the forum and do not think that you are alone. All people of all the world are with you, but when the downward trend of the world is broken from the top.

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Today, 24 I reply this message:

Dear Pezhman

I received your words of comfort with great satisfaction.

I realize that you feel disenchanted and powerless in the face of this global trend towards dark times and that you think that any action taken by powerless people like us will be futile. That all is already lost, and that nothing more can be done.

I have a similar feeling, but, at the same time, I refuse to accept simply watching everything being destroyed, including our own lives, as of our families and loved ones, without at least trying to resist in some way.

I believe in the power of ideas and the great power of individual thinkers. All the great philosophers you quote, and many more, have changed the world! Just by using the power of their critical, analytical thinking, creativity, paper and ink!

Marx and Engels produced the ideological foundations of Communism/Socialism that transformed the world in the following decades. There are so many examples of this kind of action in history, which I know you can recognize, that I won’t even dwell on providing more examples.

My point is: planting the seed of powerful ideas now, will generate a reaction in the decades to come. Planting no ideas at all will keep the world on a trend similar to today’s for much longer.

Even the great political or military leaders are usually not the creators of the ideologies they defend and lead. In a sense, are the thinkers who rule/lead the world.

They always come before the revolutions!

So, one of the actions I propose is that we offer an ideology to the world, followed by an execution plan. Is something that I am thinking and developing at many years from now.

It starts slowly, being read here and there by a few, but if it finds fertile ground in people’s minds, proposing something powerful and that makes sense, it starts to spread, person by person, like an ideological “virus”. As the Dawkins’ concept of memetics.

So many stupid ideas have already conquered the world, would it be so impossible that an alternative and noble idea would have some space of existence? That it might inspire the political and military leaders of the future to lead a counterrevolution?

Changing of subject, as for continuing in the Forum, I thank you for the invitation, but I think it is impossible now, because I am considered an undesirable person by Mrs. Becker, and other Forum members, and I recognize this space as her home, and my presence would be a disrespect to her.

This private message I sent to you, I also sent to Chauncey Tinker, Liz and Yazmin, as they are the people I have had some kind of public relationship through the comment we exchanges.

You were the only one who replied to me, and with words of warmth and support.

Yazmin sent a copy to Mrs. Becker totally terrified that somehow I had hacked her personal email…

For some reason I received the messages of the conversations between her and Mrs. Becker. I don’t know if she copied them and sent them to me, or if the system sent them because they quoted me. But I found it very strange.

In these messages Yazmin seems terrified by me, and Ms. Becker refers to me as a violent person, highly suspicious, with sinister goals, who has infiltrated the group with an evil hidden agenda, as a man of mature age but immature mentality, with the purpose of creating a secret society (along the shapes of Freemasonry)…

I think it is safe to say, that Mrs. Becker does not like and does not trust me.

Motivated by this dark impression Mrs. Becker posts a public message warning everyone about these events. Liz posts a comment stating that she agrees with Mrs. Becker.

I do not intend to prolong this event any further than it already has been. I also have no intention of contradicting or questioning anyone else. That’s it for me.

Well, now I know that in a sense I am less alone, because the community know that I exist, and I feel that you Pezhman have some respect for me. The reciprocal is true.

But in a sense this event has hurt me because I managed to get rejected and kicked out of the group in the record time of only 2 weeks! I had hoped to become friend of all you, and now I am considered a kind of enemy by some! I consider this a total failure! A disaster of epic proportions!

I have been rejected by the few and only people who one would expect should have liked me! Imagine when I tell this episode to my family and friends, part conservative, part leftist, part atheist, none atheist-conservative. They will all say how terrible I am, because you have confirmed it in their eyes!

I am feeling ashamed and questioning whether I am really this terrible human being who is not wanted even among the few who think like me…

We are social animals; we need a group to coexist. At this moment I am recovering emotionally from this hard blow.

But I can tell you that I will not give up. I plan to create my own group in the near future. It will be quite different from this one. If you allow me, I will invite you.

But what can happen is that my access to private messages is stopped by the group administrator, preventing me from accessing you. In that case, if I never reply or communicate with you again, that is the likely reason.

Take care Pezhman, a big hug.

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I just want to clear things up Wagner, I didn’t send the email to Jillian out of fear, I sent it to ask her thoughts about it, although I am suspicious about how you privately emailed me.

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Yazmin, The ability to send direct and private messages between forum members is an existing feature, I didn’t have to do anything suspicious. My intention was just to do it discreetly, without exposing the people involved. I wanted to avoid exactly what is happening now!

Unfortunately, the system blocked me again, saying that I do not can post 3 consecutive messages…

I ask someone to help me to conclude the posting of the last messages

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Continuing,

few minutes after, I read the Fiangol messages above, and get shocked by the way how my message was distorted! So, I write this message to him:

"You totally misunderstood my words! I said that ideas SHAPE the world, and I cited as an example one of the WORST ideas of all time, Communism/Socialism, despite all their stupidity and evil, still managed to be influential!

In no way do I believe they are good or that I support them!

It was just an example, now I see it was a very bad example… I meant the power of all ideas, good and bad, examples of good ideas are the various ideas in the field of morals, the Greek philosophies, the development of democracy, of the republic, of the state governed by laws.

I am shocked that you could have understood my words so distorted!"

Fiangol:
“I explained you that every ideology or methodology does not work well. The time of ideologies is expired. I do not want to be a member of any kind of groups because I explained you everything but you didn’t read them carefully. BYE”

Me:
“What you are saying is that you don’t believe anything more can be done, and I am saying that I still have hope that something can be done.
I’m sorry but I’m going to put our conversation public, because I feel that this is turning into a madness.”

Fiangol:
“EXCELLENT Work please!”

I think Fialgol’s position is totally radicalized, intolerant and hopeless! He explains his opinion to me as something final, which is the essence of the world, with no margin for any other opinion!

Worse, he distorts my words in such an absurd way, and attributes to me the exact opposite of what I wish to express! I don’t know if this is a problem of translation, or of his personality. But I felt outraged by this kind of attribution!

Community, I will make a definitive statement: I in no way support Communism/Socialism, Fascism, Leftism, Globalism and all associated ideologies!

I do not promote violence! I am not a terrorist! I am not a spy! I am not an evil person with a hidden agenda!

I am very sorry to everyone that all these unfortunate situations have happened through my statements. I take all my responsibilities for my personal opinions. But only by my REAL opinions, not the ones wrongly interpreted and attributed to me!

I sincerely apologize to everyone and especially to Ms. Becker! I have great respect for her, and it was never my intention to disrespect her, especially I her " house".

As I have already said, I will be stepping away from this forum, and I don’t intend to prolong this situation any longer than it already has been. That’s the end of the matter for me.
I wish you all success and happiness!

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Thank you, Fiangol!

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Again I thank you, Fiangol.

But he may not return. Wagner committed a crime according to US law. He is in Brazil, so he cannot be charged with it. But if he remains a member of this Forum, we could be in trouble for what he wrote.

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I am letting these comments by Wagner stand for the moment.

But never again. He must stop posting here.

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