The True Scale Of National Debt - UK

No, the standard of living, and life expectancy, has actually gone down. The whole subject of the article is the gargantuan scale of national debt.
That is all due to Keynsian based, leftist policies.
Here’s Ayn Rand on capitalism - “All the evils popularly ascribed to capitalism were caused, necessitated and made possible ONLY by government controls imposed on the economy…when they hear it said that capitalism has had it’s chance and failed, let them remember that what ultimately failed was a “mixed” economy, that the controls were the cause of the failure, and that the way to save a country is not by making it swallow a full, “unmixed” glass of the poison which is killing it.”

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So govt. should not monitor water/electricity/gas/gasoline/sewage/road/airport usage or air/water quality ?
Govt. should not collect statistics of any type, so for instance, they would not know, or be allowed to know if a deadly pandemic was sweeping the land?
No collection of crime statistics? No records of births, deaths, immigration, emigration?
No monitoring of education standards? Health of the population?
When was the last time you flushed your toilet into a privately owned wastewater treatment system?

Monitoring water/electricity, etc - that’s not the same thing as a “role in the economy” that you previously asserted.
We’re not talking about basic infrastructure - we’re talking about a welfare state.

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If the standard of living has gone down in the US it is because of uncontrolled capitalism that has outsourced American industry and destroyed US production of goods.
If life expectancy has gone down it is because of the uncontrolled capitalists who control our “healthcare system”. The whole point of that system is to maximise big pharmas profits and those of the private equity vultures who see in health care an opportunity to price gouge, which they do, ruthlessly. See “The Market-Ticker” blog of Karl Denninger, or better yet read his book “Leverage”.
Ayn Rand never did a thing but bitch and moan. she was a writer (and a good one); she never held political office or ran a corporation. Her economic views hold no particular value for me. Like Friedman and Hayek, and that British idiot Patrick Minford, they were all utopians, who felt that they, and they alone had found the answer; the holy grail of economics.

Definitely no “monitoring” of “eduction standards”. Government should have nothing to do with education.
Dealing with epidemics is an aspect of protection. But there is a wrong way to do it - such as has been done with Covid.
Crime - the entire justice system - is a main part of government responsibility. That’s what it’s there for - to protect every individual. Records of births, deaths, immigration are also part of its essential function. As is the protection of the nation from foreign invasion - hence to maintain a strong military.

As for the provision of the utilities - that is a matter for local authorities whose business is to provide what the people who employ them need. Nothing to do with welfare.

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Making sure that adequate supplies of water/electricity are available, is not taking “a role in the economy”?
I disagree.
And to hell with the poor and the dis-advantaged: Are there no workhouses?

Careful Ms Becker, you are sounding like a collectivist! :wink:

We have school districts in the US who are teaching fundamentalist christianity.
Absolutely govt. should have a role in preventing that, it is for the protection and rights of the children. The parents can all rant in tongues and cower in fear of the almighty, but the children, who are also citizens, deserve protection. Also they need protection from the queer agenda that is being pushed. Gov. De Santis has just signed a law doing that; do you agree with him?

“Uncontrolled capitalism”! You really are a socialist!

It is the welfare state (socialist state) that interferes in matters of health care.

Prices depend on the market. You want price controls? Surest way to Venezuela!

Rand, Friedman, all the economists of the Austrian School want human liberty. Not utopia. Far from believing they had “found the answer”, they knew that nobody ever has the answer and there is no “answer” to find - so let people be free, and protect their freedom. Unlike socialists and other idealists, these political philosophers of the Right do not believe that human nature is “perfectable”. They know it is not good and what they advocate takes that fully into account.

Classic conservative philosophy famously takes the tragic view of human nature. Thomas Sowell calls it “the tragic vision”. He contrasts it with the vision of the “self-annointed” - those who think they have “the answer”.

You say you have read Rand, Friedman, Hayek. You may have read Sowell too. But you clearly have not been persuaded by them. Which causes me to suspect that you have not understood them.

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Its the government that’s pushing the queer agenda to begin with! Government should have no control over education - they are the ones who corner the market on brainwashing.
De Santis is merely protecting parental rights.

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It is the federal (Democrat, far-left) government that is subjecting children to CRT and is nudging them to have their sexual organs mutilated and their fertility destroyed.

DeSantis is protecting the children of Florida from those atrocious policies.

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I have read Thomas Sowell. I admit to being a little disappointed, I don’t think he understands the mechanism of wealth creation very well. Adam Smith had it right; economics is as much a philosophical discipline as a mathematical one. Modern economists tend to concentrate far more on the mathematical aspect and ignore the philosphical, which requires some level of understanding of human behavior. Unfortunately the students who are attracted to economics these days are mainly those who are extremely good at statistics. I had a very interesting conversation with a young man who was pursuing two Phd degrees at the same time, in statistics/economics.
Human society is very complex, there is a mix of characteristics that every successful economy has. Unfortunately for the US, those characteristics do not include laziness, lack of ambition, resentment, envy and drug abuse

I apologize. Apparently i have published 38% of the responses on this thread, in my defense I do feel that I am under somewhat of an attack.
I am going to shut up now, regards to all. :slightly_smiling_face: :frowning_face:

Rand, Friedman and Hayek all Utopians? Hardly, as their, as well as Mises, work on economics was based on reality - “on 600 years of observation, analysis, and thought, a description and explanation of what economics IS.”
I think the Utopian was Karl Marx.
You might want to read Henry Hazlett’s critique of Keynse, “The Failure of the New Economics, an Analysis of the Keynsian Fallacies”.
He does a good job of exposing Keynes’ arguments as both incoherent and baseless.

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Thank you for that, Liz. I will read Henry Hazlett’s critique of Keynes.

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That’s a technique of argument evasion.

I don’t blame you for retreating with a virtuous excuse. Your position is not defensible.

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Pfft:
"My position not defensible!
I wiped the floor with you all! :wink: :slightly_smiling_face: :slightly_smiling_face: :slightly_smiling_face:!

I am sorry, I can’t control myself.
Henry Hazlitts “Economics in one lesson” is a great read.
I bought a copy for my grandson, to counteract the BS he was getting at home.

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You wiped the floor with us in just the same way as Biden was a full professor for four years, drove an eighteen-wheeler, and negotiated peace between Israel and Egypt in 1973.

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Don’t forget; he was also the first man on the moon, Neil Armstrong was just some bit character in support of “Joe; The Magnificent”. :grinning:

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