The Left is International and Russia Is Still Its HQ

[Doug1943]

My own view, based on detailed knowledge close enough to zero to be its equivalent, is that top-down massive outright vote-rigging did NOT occur. That is, the electronic voting machines weren’t hacked. And there may, probably was, some old-fashioned electoral fraud, but not enough to affect the results. The election was lost, not stolen.

Trump lost, because he repulsed enough Republican voters to cost him the election. These people either didn’t vote for any Presidential candidate, or they voted for Biden – and then they voted for Republicans down-ticket.

I know this hurts. A rational person, not a religious person, will ask to see the evidence which challenges their beliefs, and be open to changing their mind if the evidence is convincing. Matters of fact must not be articles of faith.

Ballot harvesting, yes – they do that. And they pour huge amounts of money into the elections to influence voters their way.

Sometimes this money is disguised as non-partisan grants. the Capital Research Center [ https://capitalresearch.org/ ] has demonstrated how that worked: Mark Zuckerberg, CTCL, and 2020 Election Irregularities - Capital Research Center

We have to face reality. Religious people have comforting beliefs, and if you challenge them, they react emotionally, not logically. They don’t want to give up their beliefs that Satan exists, that they will go to heaven, etc.

We must not be like that. It gets in the way of effective combat against the enemy.

I was agnostic on this issue, until I came across these people, and read their report: https://lostnotstolen.org/

Personally, I am glad to now believe that the other side did not steal the election. Because if they did, they can do it again, so what’s the purpose of voting, of registering people to vote, of getting them down to the polls? It would be pointless. Just what the enemy want us to think.

But if they won by various big-money-financed get-out-the-vote work, including ballot-harvesting … then we can do the same! And we should.

[Liz]

Big money financed get out the vote, ballot harvesting, staffing voting centers with leftist activist people, phony ballots, huge late ballot dumps that were overwhelmingly in favor of Biden, running ballots thru voting machines repeatedly - that all, among other things, adds up to rigging.
And I’ve seen plenty of evidence that the machines ARE hackable, and in fact WERE hacked.
Trump did not lose. But how you perceive things often depends on who you listen to.
The idea that “Trump lost because he repulsed enough Republican voters to cost him the election” is simply ludicrous, in my opinion.
And the fact that the officials of the states most suspected of cheating refused to allow recounts and stonewalled every effort to investigate indicates quite strongly that they have something to hide.
And as for the “lostnotstolen” report, Senator Danforth is among those Republicans who immediately jumped to the conclusion that Jan 6 was an “insurrection”. That should tell you something. I wont be surprised to find the others did, also.

[Doug1943]

Liz, we are all rationalists here. That means we’re open to evidence to that contradicts our fondest beliefs. If you have read that report, and reject its conclusions because you have evidence that they have not considered, or you think their methods are poor, fine.

Just because an enemy – Sen. Danforth – says something, does not make it false. Our enemies say true things when it serves their interests to do so, just as we do (and should).

I’m going to assume you’ve looked closely at that report, and reject it. If you know of a written analysis by someone that does the same thing, I’d be very happy to read it.

But i fear that many conservatives – atheists and religious fundamentalists alike – tend to believe the things that make them feel good, seize on evidence that confirms their beliefs, and reject evidence that tends to undermine their beliefs.

I think that, in general, it’s important that we not do this. I like to study military history, and there are many examples of catastrophes happening to one side in a war, because its leaders refused to believe evidence that contradicted what they wanted to believe.

For example: Stalin had a treaty with Hitler. Stalin was a distrustful man, but the one person he did trust was Hitler – to keep the treaty, which was actually very advantageous to the Nazis. But Stalin also had an excelleion espionage apparatus around the world, and since the Germans didn’t keep the secret of their planned invasion very well, this network of spies found out about it and warned Moscow. To no avail. And supposedly, a German Communist in the Wehrmacht deserted and crossed into Soviet territory to warn them of the imminent invasion – and was shot for his troubles. Stalin just didn’t want to believe the bad news.

When the US drove the North Koreans back across the 38th parallel, and then kept on going, to eliminate Communism in North Korea altogether, the Chinese warned the US that it had better not come close to the Chinese-Korean border. Badly advised by his chief of intelligence, MacArthur told Truman not to worry, it was just a bluff. It wasn’t, and we suffered severe defeats until we were able to rally and hold the line roughly at the 38th parallel again.

Don’t be afraid to believe the bad news!

Now, with respect to whether the election was stolen: (1) since they thought and think Trump=Hitler, they could have stolen it with a clear conscience. (I would have cheated in similar circumstances, were I counting the ballots for a communist – a real one – or a fascist – a real one.) So it’s not implausible.

And I would bet anything that some local, improvised, cheating took place.

But I also think Trump lost ‘legitimately’, because of those Republican suburban mums, who didn’t vote for him, but did vote for other Republicans.

But … it doesn’t make a whole lot of difference. I’m sorry to see patriots engaging in magical thinking, because I think it makes us weaker. In particular, I fear that it will discourage our side from voting – if their vote is going to be ignored, why do it ? – and, worse, it will encourage some hot-heads to do stupid things.

But it’s not really worth arguing about, nor is it the sort of subject we actually can argue about on a forum, since it depends on detailed information about who did what when at what ballot box, etc.

So, if you, or anyone reading this, can point me to a good, detailed refutation of the ‘Lost, Not Stolen’ document – please do so.

Otherwise, let’s discuss how to win the coming elections, and other ways of beating the Left.

[jbecker]

Thanks for all that, Liz. I totally agree with you.

[Liz]

A website that refutes lostnotstolen is TreasureLiberty.com. It has at least two articles on it, “So now RINOS have Issued LostNotStolen Report”, and “LostNotStolen Lies”.
The point it brings out in the first article is that the lostnotstolen report was based on the court cases that were brought immediately after the 2020 election, most of which were dismissed without hearing the evidence, or are still in litigation.

[jbecker]

My own thought too when I read the report.

[Doug1943]

Okay, I’ll have a look. I don’t like changing my mind on anythng I believe in, but I am always willing to do that if the evidence is there.

In return for your link, I give you one on the excellent journal Chronicles of American Culture has an interesting article which goes into the statistical anomalies about the 2020 election.

[ Biden’s Inexplicable Victory - Chronicles ]

However, to me, it’s one of those questions which doesn’t make any difference, unless someone believes that the system is so rigged that it’s pointless to vote, which is what they would like us to believe and how they would like us to behave.

[Liz]

Why would it not make any difference? If it’s rigged, it has to be fixed, or voting is pointless.

[Doug1943]

Maybe I was not clear.

If you think that the electoral system is rigged, by a shadowly all-powerful Central Group of Conspirators, so that no many how many people come out and cast votes for patriotic candidates in November, they’ll still lose … then of course it’s pointless to vote, so why not stay home or go fishing? Why lend credibility to a Soviet-style election? As that old anarchist slogan has it, “Don’t vote, it only encourages them.”

People who actually do believe this and do refuse to vote probably have some Hollywood-inspired fantasy of a Peoples’ Uprising. I’ve come across people like this on a couple of militia forums. (Some of them were probably agents of the enemy. If I had the resources, I’d be doing something similar on Leftwing websites, where there are actually people who are so radical that the Democrats are the same as the Republicans and so they won’t vote Democrat. Excellent, we should encouragage such people!)

People like this have zero knowledge of how actual revolutions occur. They need to read a few books.

But if you believe that your vote may be counted – despite some cheating here and there – and that the more of us there are voting, the harder it is to cheat successfully - then you’ll go foot-to-the-floorboard to get everyone who thinks like you out to vote, and also to volunteer as an observer on election day.

Which is what I believe and what I want to do and what I think we should all do.

[Liz]

Yes, we all definitely need to make even more of an effort to vote, be poll watchers, etc.
But at the same time we need to continue to work on fixing the voter fraud.

[Doug1943]

Absolutely. There are two ways to do that, I think.

The mundane way: get trained in what to watch for, and then be a poll watcher. Presumably the local GOP can help. If not, that’s a problem to be fixed. (We should all be in the GOP and active in our local organization.)

A more exciting way, which I won’t elaborate on here, is to get inside knowledge of how ballot rigging may be going on. But that requires real dedication, and two or three years of pretending to be what you’re not, with the ‘you’ having no public past as a patriot. Something for a younger person, probably. But we don’t have the organization to organize that, nor, evidently, the consciousness that would support this method of political warfare. But it’s what they do to us.

[Doug1943]

For those who want to be a poll watcher, start here:
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/poll-watcher-qualifications.aspx