Ammunition in the fight against Critical Race Theory

Education
#21

Whoa, you guessed it! Yep, it’s Marx and Engels, in the Communist Manifesto.
[ Communist Manifesto (Chapter 1) ] They got it wrong about how capitalism would develop, of course, but they were absolutely right about how it has been, and is, dragging mankind forward. (And, of course, what would the modern Left make of all those references to ‘barbarian and semi-barbarian nations’ contrasted to ‘civilized’ ones. Not to mention their very unGreen cheering for the application of industry to the conquest of nature. If one of them tried to speak on an American campus today, they’d be beaten to death by outraged radical students. They were great thinkers. Hats off to them!)

Hollywood’s productions generally have a Good vs Evil theme, and here they’re just carrying on the long tradition of story-telling. But, although ‘Good’ and ‘Evil’ are useful concepts, they don’t begin to describe our complex old world.

This has practical implications: there are people on the Left who are increasingly uneasy about the direction the American Left is being taken. They’re not evil people. We need to make approaches to them. It’s in our interests to do so.

And, yes, I’ve read the people you mentioned, but not as a scholar, not exhaustively, although I want to read von Mises and Hayek more thoroughly and deeply, since I suspect they may have relevant things to say about what’s happening to our society which I didn’t get from what I did read.

What I really appreciate about ‘the Austrians’ is their formulation of what I think is the irrefutable killer argument against a genuine socialist economy, the so-called ‘Socialist Calculation Question’. I use it a lot in online discussions.

However, like 99.99% of conservatives, as opposed to Libertarians (God bless 'em!), I accept the current welfare state, as well as seeing other areas where government ownership and control are a good thing. (We could probably have a good discussion about how much socialism a good society should have – using the word ‘socialism’ to mean government ownership and regulation, including income re-distribution. )
What I’m not going to do is to be like contemporary Christians, and pay lip-service to a set of ideas/ideals that in practice I make zero effort to realize.

I learned a lot as a communist, especially in the field of practical organizing. How I wish we had a conservative Lenin in the US right now!

And, hey, ex-Marxists can make very good conservatives. I’m not at all comparing myself to the following, but American conservatives ought to know the history of their own movement:
Have a look at the biographies of some of the founding members of the editorial board of National Review, nearly 70 years ago, and see if you can spot what they have in common:

James Burnham

Whittaker Chambers

Frank Meyer

John Dos Passos

Willi Schlamm

So take a leaf out of the Christians’ book, Luke 15:7 ![Luke 15:7 KJV - I say unto you, that likewise joy shall - Bible Gateway]

1 Like
#22

Doug, please stop trying to teach your grandmothers to suck eggs! We KNOW the history. We KNOW what those persons wrote and did.

You cannot resist it? You are a pedagogue at heart? A communist pedagogue at heart, I’d say, even though you have reasoned yourself away from the religion of communism.

By all means tell us your opinions. But please do not constantly assume the position of instructor. It is very annoying.

No, Marx and Engels were NOT great thinkers.

ONLY on the Left can you learn “practical organizing”. To want to organize in the way you do is a result of thinking sociologically. And socialistically.

Very bad ideas - they can be summed up with the word “wokeism” - have entranced a bunch of powerful people in the Western world. If you have arguments to counter their evil faith, make them heard. Argue is all we can do (other than war). But please don’t assume our ignorance.

1 Like
#23

Hmmmm… I recall being asked if I had read Adam Smith and Milton Friedman and the Austrians … this didn’t bother me, although if were touchy I could have taken that as an insult.

Maybe you sincerely thought I had not read or even heard of these people. Or maybe it was a rhetorical question. Big deal. There is tons that I don’t know and that I can learn from you and others. (At the moment, I’m reading Hitler’s Children, to see if I can get an insight into today’s nihilist self-hating Left.) It’s a war, and we must put our own egos aside and become soldiers in that war.

But I don’t want to make anyone here unhappy. What I would like to do is to encourage everyone here to usetheir good knowledge and high intelligence (I’m not being sarcastic) to do some harm to our enemies. If it’s not your thing, then so be it. Free country and all that.

But if you’re minded to, why not join me in a foray into the world of online atheism, to drop a few apples of discord among the Left, get the liberal atheists who believe in free speech and the existence of objective truth, fighting with the liberal atheists who are going ‘woke’?

In fact, on at least one of these forums, there are some people who ought to be here – they’re unhappy with the growth of Islam in the West. And, although it’s dormant right now, there is even a ‘Conservative Atheists’ grouplet: Conservative Atheists - Atheist Universe

It’s fun to talk to each other. Humans need fellowship. It’s nice to see lots of little forums for conservatives to talk to each other … each with half a dozen members, just the right numbers for people to get to know each other. So many unusual, good, impressive people. Wonderful.

But … the light of civilization is dying. We must not go gentle into the Night the Left is preparing for us. We must rage, rage, against the dying of the light.

I think there are things we can do online that will help our side and hurt our enemies. I may be wrong, of course. Maybe it’s hopeless. Maybe we should just do what some Christian conservatives counsel us to do … wait for Jesus and the Rapture.

I disagree. I want to spread some hell among our enemies … come on, it’s both a Good Thing to do, and it’s fun!

And it might have an effect! William Buckley, in founding National Review, said that the whole New Deal revolution could not have happened without years and years of The Nation and The New Republic propagandizing among young college students. He understood the importance of the battle of ideas. He was right.

1 Like
#24

Asking whether someone has read something is not the same as telling them they should read it. The advice is implied maybe, but it is less arrogant.

If you have read the Austrian school why do you quote David Brooks?

Of course we want to harm our enemies. Just not in the way you do. One of your memes has Sowell stating it is futile to use facts and analysis to argue with those enjoying a feeling of moral superiority - or something to that effect. You don’t agree with him?

1 Like
#25

William Buckley Jr. was often right about political issues. But he was also a devout Roman Catholic.

I simply cannot understand how any sane, intelligent, educated adult can believe that ludicrous and terrifyingly dangerous nonsense.

And the New Deal was a Bad Thing.

1 Like
#26

Jill … the political spectrum is broad, and complicated. And it’s not just a simple Left vs Right thing. I know you know this.

David Brooks is not a hard-core conservative (well, neither am I, probably, according to you). But he is a kind of conservative. Liberals listen to him. He makes some good points against them. I’m glad he’s on our side.

I’m glad William Buckley was on our side, as well. And, yes, I often wondered how he, and other intelligent Roman Catholics, could believe all the things they’re supposed to believe.

But people are complex! The prospect of final dissolution, of death, is terrifying to many … so they invent a comforting fairy tale that assures them it’s not the end … do they really believe it? I don’t know.

In any case, I see the world this way: we’re in a trench. Coming towards us is wave after wave of pitiless bloodthirsty enemies. Now, I may have lots of disagreements with other people in the trench. But at this moment – when the howling hordes are approaching – I’m not really interested in starting an argument with them … unless it’s on how to direct their fire more effectively (shoot so the bullets strike in front of them and then walk your fire up). Even if they’re not being very effective, shooting over the enemy’s head … they’re on my side.

That’s how I see Christian conservatives, atheist conservatives, Ba’hai conservatives, any sort of conservative … right wing, left wing, libertarian, even neo- … if they’re actually trying to stop the enemy. (A lot of the neocons have changed sides. So effectivelym, they’re Leftists now.)

I’m probably not very different from everyone else here – not a bad education, not too badly read, an interest in all kinds of things … we could probably chat about lots of interesting topics. (I was really interested in one person’s account, a few days ago, of her life … why she chose to have children and raise a family, running counter to the spirit of the times. ) And we’re all good people!

But my particular shtick right now is trying to mobilize some of the great unrealized, unused talent on the Right, among the rank and file (us), against the enemy. So I overlook differences on the Real Presence, or whether or not we should auction off the socialistic National Parks, or even whether we should take steps leading to the real possibility of WWIII with Russia. … Not that these aren’t important issues, but if I can do something against the Left with people I disagree with on one or more of these issues, I want to do it.

In the 1930s, the Stalinists were pretty successful in suppressing the doubts of other kinds of socialists with respect to their labor camps and firing squads, by calling for unity against fascism. ’
“pas d’ennemis sur la gauche”, was how they put it.

That’s my attitude to conservatives who believe in an invisible man in the sky, or who believe in abolishing Social Security and Workmen’s Compensation (or who say they do, ha ha ).

1 Like
#27

The trench analogy reminds me of a joke, which is applicable to the analogy as well.

It’s a real war – Korea. An American infantry platoon is on a hill … and the Chinese are gathering below. A sergeant goes from man to man, saying “Boys, we’re outnumbered ten to one. So you’ve really got to shoot well. We can stop 'em if you do.”

The Chinese attack, in human waves … wave after wave. The Americans fire desperately … their rifle barrels are almost glowing. The sergeant crawls from foxhole to foxhole, bringing more ammunition, and encouraging his men.

Then he comes to one foxhole where the soldier inside is … asleep! The sergeant grabs him by the shouilder and angrily shakes him awake, and shouts “What the hell are you doing, solider! Didn’t i tell you that we’re outnumbered ten to one?”

The bewildered private answers, “Yeah, Sarge, you did say that … but … I done got my ten!”

We’ve all got to keep shooting, even if we’ve already got our ten.

1 Like
#28

There is a deep and very wide chasm between Left and Right. Unbridgeable. The two sides do not have a common language. Completely different issues concern them.

The Left is obsessed with “climate change” (“man-made global warming”), race, “gender”, abortion; having us all dependent on government - and government powerful to the point of totalitarian control.

The Right continues to hold freedom as a supreme value. Their issues are to do with autonomy, self-reliance, personal responsibility, the market economy, abundant energy, the importance of family over community, nationhood, rule of law, equality before the law, meritocracy, “color-blindness”, prosperity and property, and limits to government power.

It is impossible to find a trace of conservatism in David Brooks even when he is put under a super-enlarging microscope. If he had even a speck of it he would not be allowed to write for the Hitler-excusing, Stalin-admiring, Chinese Communism supporting, anti-Semitic, White-hating, forever bending over BLACKWARDS New York Times.

1 Like
#29

What is the unbridgeable difference between Left and Right on the issue of the war in Ukraine?

1 Like
#30

I’ve been asking that question too.

1 Like
#31

Yes. Me too. Here’s what I think: both the patriots who want a ‘forward policy’ confronting the Russians, and those who don’t … are patriots. We must not let this disagreement divide us.

We atheists actually have to cultivate this attitude especially, because a lot of our conservative colleagues are keen on religion, and not very strong on separation of Church and State. I’ve been holding my breath, fearing they’re going to introduce School Prayer into the Republican political platform.
And what about abortion? There are some fundamentalists on our side who believe that the instant a sperm touches an egg, that is a full-fledged human being, and something like the morning-after pill, for example, is simple murder… and that this applies to a raped 11 year old.

My general approach to these people is to try to get them to use some common sense, and not drive ‘middle’ voters away. I know you don’t believe there are any, that the whole world is divided into the Conservative Elect, and the Socialist Damned, but in fact there are millions of people whose vote is crucial to our victory.

Common sense in ths case (extreme abortion positions, Christian natinalism, school prayer) could be just postponing bringing these ideas up … and/or using persuasion, rather than prison, to get people to act like they want them to.

#32

“Socialist Damned”? Who damns them? To what?

“Conservative Elect”? No. Trump’s followers are not the elect. The Dems in power, Biden’s handlers, the Obama “transformers”, the High Tech magnates, the WEF - they are “the elect”.

You mean: the conservatives, who are good in my eyes, and the socialists, who are bad in my eyes.

School prayer is of no importance whatsoever. It harms no one in Britain, does it? Or don’t they do it there any more?

And Christian Nationalism is not an issue.

1 Like
#33

The “whole world” is not divided the same way America is politically. Not quite the same. Though its getting that way.

Have you perhaps been living too far away from America for too long now to catch the beats of the different drums?

1 Like
#34

Here is an article on Christian Nationalism as discussed by a major Christian magazine, Christianity Today:

It seems to be a thorough article.

1 Like
#35

How important is Christian Nationalism in American politics? How much influence does it have on the electorate? On the Republican Party? (I doubt it has any on the Dems.?) Is it really a thing we need to be concerned about?

1 Like
#36

As Chr. Today is left leaning, of course Trump supporters are a “mob”. It says Christian Nationalists have become “dangerous”, with talk of fighting to preserve themselves, but doesn’t mention why - that this is only happening as a reaction to the actual, real danger from the leftist attack on and destruction of the country.
As long as Christians don’t want a theocracy (which the article admits they don’t) I don’t see a danger from them. The real danger is from the left.

2 Likes
#37

‘Christian Nationalism’ is not a danger to America. And it’s certainly not a danger to the Left in America … just the opposite. It could have been invented by the Left, as yet another way to make the Right shoot itself in the foot.

Here’s a hypothetical situation: you’re talking to a fellow conservative who happens to be a Christian, and who is going to run for office. They tell you that they are going to use the Confederate Flag as their symbol, and are gonig to call themselves a ‘Christian Nationalist’.

Would youi have any advice for them?

As for whether this tendency is actually growing on the Right, or is just another bogey-man invented by the Left … well, I think it helped to lose us the governorship of Pennsylvania. I have a friend there who is a Christian, a good patriot, and – going against her natural shyness – became active in the last election. And she told me that she had decided she was a ‘Christian nationalist’. I hope like hell she is completely atypical, but I fear she is not.

Let me say it again: I’m only worried about this because I fear it will drive away voters we could otherwise win.

1 Like
#38

If you’re interested in some actual facts about ‘Christian nationalism’ and how it’s viewed, read this: Views of U.S. as a Christian nation, Christian nationalism and its meaning | Pew Research Center

The first half is about the question of whether ‘America is a Christian nation’ – a meaningless concept. Scroll on down to the second half, which is about the phrase ‘Christian nationalism’.

I repeat: the only issue of interest is: will the widespread adoption of this phrase by Christian conservatives help, or hurt, our cause?

1 Like
#39

I think we have concluded that it is not an issue.

And to me it is not interesting.

1 Like
#40

Considering that it is left leaning, I thought the article was thorough, still.

1 Like