Curious, how many here consider themselves as “Atheists”, ie, as part of a coherent ‘group’ or if you just do not believe in ‘gods’ ? This came across my FB feed and it’s a topic I’ve been thinking about a lot, lately, as I see more and more leftists glom onto ‘atheism’, and most seem to turn it into “Atheism” pretty quickly. Does anyone recall the brain study a few years ago wher they found many self proclaimed atheists had the same brain centers stimulated as the devoutly religious ? I wasn’t at all surprised at that,TBH, I’d been seeing the shift to ‘dogmatic’ A-theism for some time now, sadly. Just curious what others ideas and thoughts here on this are-
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I suppose I should have kicked it off, myself, lol, but for the Record,I am a SMALL ‘a’ “atheist”, Lol. I didn’t trade one set of craziness just to jump into another pool of dogmatic crazy, as it seems is the trend for the leftists, these days. 90 % I’ll wager is adolescent lashing out at their parents, or “god” or whatever, and now it’s hip to be an actual EDGY A-theist ! Hahaha… I came to my current (and I reserve the right to always change them ! ) ‘beliefs’ after much actual serious study of religions and the written history of the Christian Church, mostly. I was raised a Mormon, believe it or not, and while, like many traditional religions, there ARE laudable and even good parts of them, I have come to the conclusion that they generally do more harm than good, but that there is also a huge danger in destroying them altogether, without something rational to replace them, as we are seeing with the Cult of Covid. Anyway, thats the short version. Your turn… 
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I was Christian for most of my life, only found my way out of it after years of studying Bible and Church history, like you.
Although I now, of course, think Reason is a better foundation for thought, I don’t try to talk the religious out of it any more - its something a person has to figure out on their own, and it can be psychologically and emotionally damaging to people to be unwillingly deprived of something they’ve become so dependent on for comfort.
As for leftists, of course they hijacked atheism like they do everything else, and gave it a bad name.
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I agree. I used to be pretty “militant”, it’s kind of a default for me, lol, I suppose that hasn’t gone unnoticed here, lol. I suppose I’n one of the "all types’ that it takes to maintain the comforts of civilization, at least, until the World finally grows up enough to actually act like an Adult. But that’s here nor there. I first began studying my family religion, Mormonism. Well, first, some background. My Dad and I were big History Buffs, and Militaria Collectors. I grew up doing all sorts of research on various old Military ‘things’. Uniforms, patches, guns, swords, etc, for any number of periods. Urban legends and fakery abound, as you can imagine, so I developed a pretty keen eye for details, and have figured out many a mystery of where and how some item or other came to be, and such things. So, when as an adult, after I got out of the Military, I decided to finally research religion, I wouldn’t say I was a rookie, by any means, to research techniques and digging into old files and documents etc. Now, remember, i had been TOLD that all this stuff was, literally, Gospel TRUTH. Now, I even then, didn’t really believe most of the really crazy stuff, but like a lot of myths and legends,I figured there was a ‘True’ story in there, somewhere. Imagine my surprise when I first learned ol Joe Smith was a fraud, and not just ANY fraud, but one polished enough to actually pull off creating an entire damn RELIGION, FFS ! Hahaha ! DAMN. Now see, i had always heard of such things, whispered of course, but it was always, ‘all those LIES about the Prophet’, and such things, of course. So I knew there was gonna be some funky stuff, but figured it was just stuff blown out of proportion, or taken out of context, etc. Well, by the time I really got serious, all those Courthouse Records about ol Joes Fraudulent ways that had been thought lost had turned up, and Boy Oh Boy, it’s REALLY hard to try to rationalize all THAT shit away, hahaha-and of course, I couldn’t. It was all clearly lies and bullshit, and he was a master huckster. But what really got me, was all the folks I knew and respected, and that I KNEW, PERSONALLY, Were VERY Intelligent people, many far more than I’ll likely ever be, and THEY Believed this crap ?!? WTAF OVER ??! I was floored, at first, and then royally pissed. Part of me still is. Sadly, I truly understand Cognitive Dissonance. I’ve seen it up close, and still do, i still have some family and a few friends who are still devout. They chalk it up to the old ’ God moves in mysterious ways’ crap, and fall back on the ‘we aren’t meant to know some things’ and of course, ‘well, maybe he did do some shady stuff, but he was still being guided by the Lord’, Smfh. And as you said, Liz, I’m not going to change their minds, and I stopped trying long ago. Most I never bothered to try, I knew there was no point. But it still bothers me sometimes, that folks like my Dad, who was easily one of the smartest Men I’ve known, yet, even despite my prejudice as his Son, could ever really believe all this crap. I really DID assume there was some truth to it, somewhere, but to find nothing was hard. So, then, of course, I turned my mind to ol Heyzeus, himself. I figured SURELY, as HUGE as Christinaity is, then there really must be some rock solid proof and evidence about Jesus, and even God, himself, sonce so many people believe the Bible so seriously. They study it, and have for centuries, so al these very wise and intelligent folks MUST have some interesting things to say. Well, you all surely know how THAT turned out, as well, hahaha. And again, I was more ANGRY than anything, at having been duped, because Look, Man, I’m NOT the Smartest Dude thats ever walked the Earth, and if I can see right thru this shit like a Used Car salesmen’s chatter, WHY THE FUCK COULDN’T ALL THESE THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE NOT SEE IT IS ALL MYTH ?! Sigh. As I get older, I see more and more, of course, as do most folks. I understand it is a comfort- I understand how terrified the average person is of the Great Darkness. I get it, I do. I’ve seen them cross over too many times to count, and have been at that door myself, on more than a few times. It IS Scary. Our Survival Instincts are so strong, it makes you second guess reason, when YOU are on the block, lol, thats for sure… As much as I can rationalize it,and accept it as it is, I’m no different than anyone else, I SURE AIN’T Trying to go TODAY, Hahaha!! But at the same time, whats to worry about ? EVERYONE DOES IT. I might be a little more upset if only some of us did,and not others, hahaha. But we ALL DO. It surely can’t be but so bad. If it is, as most of us suspect, simply a switch being flipped OFF,we will never know anyway. I firmly believe we will eventually overcome it, IF we don’t end ourselves and our collected knowledge first, but that will bring it’s own set of problems. But anyway, thats my basic ‘leaving religion’ story. I’m as lot more mellow about it now, but I admit part of me is always going to be angry at being lied to and duped. But the problem is, I can’t really say with a surety that any of those folks did it knowingly- most are still devout, and surely think they failed ME somehow, hahaha, so its hard to figure out just WHO to BE mad at- Anyway, there you have it.
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Yes, it’s hard to understand how so many people, for so many centuries, could be and still are, duped into believing a myth, even after the advent of the Enlightenment, tha Age of Reason, science and the historical evidence available.
But it’s some kind of “mass hypnosis” phenomenon, combined with, as you say, people’s fear of death and a survival instinct, that overrides rationality.
Also interesting about your study of military history and the real facts about Joseph Smith!
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Yeah, Ol Joe was a piece of work. Those old Court Documents are a hoot, really, and a sad window into just how naive and unsophisticated most folks were back then. Not surprising, see as Western Civilization was still working itself out from the Reformation and then the Industrial Revolution on the heels of it,- LOTS of huge changes to the World’s Order, that had been pretty much the same since Biblical Times. A Few odd things had changed, here and there, but a Farmer or a Shepherd in the 1700-1800s were near identical to their forebears going back into the mists of time… And the same with most Crafts and Trades, little had changed, and then BAM ! It all changes, and in very short order. Much like our Generations in recent History, the changes someone saw who was born in the late 1700s, who lived to say, the 1880s, saw a New World before they died. But I digress, lol. Ol Joe was convicted of bilking folks out of money for claiming to find buried treasure, and hidden water, and such things, by, get this, burying his face into his Hat, which he claimed had some ‘special stones’ or some such in it, that allowed him to ‘SEE’ these hidden things- But after taking folks money and then continually NOT finding the things he claimed he could, he was taken to Court, hahaha… Much of which was thought lost, until someone found a few old boxes of Courthouse Records, and in going thru them found ol Joe’s Cases, lol… He had a set of stones, alrity, hahaha
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Here’s a pretty good page on Joe Smiths ‘translating’ (read- making it all up ) the ‘Book of Mormon’ from various sources, including the freaking KJV Bible itself ! CHEEKY MONKEY !! LOLOLOL !! Gotta give’em Marks for Sheer Gall, Hahaha, Damn. Smfh…
http://bookofmormonplagiarism.com/
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That is fascinating history! Interesting that Smith plagiarized from the Koran and apparently got the idea of practicing polygamy from it.
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Well, IDK if it was only the Koran, there’s plenty of it in the Bible. And it’s actually an interesting discussion, apart from Mormonism. I’ve always found it an interesting subject, since it brings out very strong feelings, lol. Like for instance, the basic concept seems to be a default for most of human history- perhaps there is something to it, because Modern folks sure do seem to have HUGE issues with monogamy, and I often wonder if polygamy might solve a lot of those issues. I’m not arrogant enough to just assume WE are always right, especially considering the extremely long history it has. And I also find it interesting that modern ‘progressives’ champion EVERY POSSIBLE FORM Of ‘Relationships’, BUT Polyhamy,Hahaha…I’ve always found that just a bit too convenient, tbh, lol. At any rate, it’s an interesting subject, and it seems to work for a lot of the world. Curious, that…Perhaps when i have some time, I’ll start a thread about that, and other relationships, since Religions take such an interest in making ‘rules’ for them all, I think a discussion is germane to atheism. Thoughts ?
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Yes, that’s true, polygamy is also in the Bible, and Muhammad probably got it from there when he himself plagiarized from the Bible! Talk about circular reasoning!! Circular plagiarizing.
It was practiced in ancient times, but I think there’s a good reason it’s been frowned upon by civilized people for a millennium or so. It’s based on the mentality that women are more like property than equal partners in life for men. (I’ve read a study, cited at The Athiest Conservative, by some anthropologists on how we evolved from polygamy to monogamy, I’ll have to find it.)
The fact that unconventional “family” relationships are being pushed now, along with weird genders, etc, is just part of the leftist push to destabilize the nuclear family, which is so foundational to civilization.
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I’ll look for it. But I don’t completely agree with the modern assessment of it, tho. It clearly works for many Societies, and more than one of those the Women involved could hardly be called "property’, lol, and are hardly ‘second class’ or anything of the sort. I do agree about the destabilizing of the Nuclear family,and that may well be why leftists aren’t fond of the notion, because it does actually encourage Family units, even if its not our particular idea of what a Family unit should be, you can’t deny that they ARE such.But They seem to want to destroy anything with any semblance of stability. Personally, I don’t have any issue with whatever consenting adults find workable, if its not harming any children. I wouldn’t do it personally,I find most western women to be entirely batshit crazy enough as it is individually, I can’t even imagine what a nightmare MORE of them would be, hahaha…plus I’m more of an ‘equality’ type. I like women to BE women, and I like being a MAN, but I find that a relationship of equals is more to my taste, even with traditional gender roles. My GF and I now are very much old school, when it comes to our gender roles, but we are very much equals, and with both of us having had careers in healthcare, have no issues when we occasionally have to do all the jobs, lol… but we both just prefer doing traditional gender stuff, if that makes sense, lol. Not sure I explained that well, hahaha, but it probably has alot to do with our ages. We’re in our 50s, and were raised by the Depression/WW2 Generation,so most of our values come from that starting point. And we are both what most would consider VERY Independent, lol. We LIKE the opposite Sex, but neither of us would lay down and die without them, hahaha. But one of them is plenty for me, lol.
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“I don’t have any issue with whatever consenting adults find workable, if it’s not harming any children.” Well, that’s the issue I do have with it - if adults with weird sexual proclivities and/or mental illnesses want to get together, fine. But now they can all adopt children, and perpetuate their mental illnesses and behaviors in those children.
Even some heterosexual parents are so brainwashed by the gender propaganda that they groom their young children to become gender confused, so they can show them off like a trophy.
It’s sick.
A polygamous “family” may be some sort of “unit”, but a far cry from ideal in my opinion. There is just no way, in that arrangement, for the close bonding necessary between a man and wife to occur that is vital to children’s mental/emotional health.
Joseph Smith’s own (first) wife was quite opposed to the idea, and Young’s weren’t too happy, either.
And as you point out, one is more than enough for any man to deal with!
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No god created Man (generic term).
Man created gods.
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Couldn’t agree more. Ol Joe’s plagiarism shows that rather nicely, in many aspects, lol. Maybe no new named ‘gods’, but an entire religion ain’t bad, Hahaha…
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